Per Bristow Voice Method

Share your knowledge or questions about vocal technique: Belting, high notes, power, hoarseness, distortion, support, Curbing, sound color, singers nodules, microphones, vibrato..... DOES NOT HAVE TO BE "COMPLETE VOCAL TECHNIQUE" RELATED - All kinds of vocal technique posts are WELCOME :)

Moderator: Henrik Kjelin

Per Bristow Voice Method

Postby Mikael Nordin » Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:37 am

I found this guy, Per Bristow, on the internet. He, like many others, claims his method is outstanding :)
In this clip you can hear him sing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRj7qQiodhE

to me it sounds like he has found a Compressed Neutral, which he puts on a compressed tongue when he demonstrates a classical style, and then some distortion when showing some rock style singing.
Am I right?

Has anyone looked more deeply into his method? I think he might have a point when he talks about 'fear' as an obstacle for singers. The fear of sounding bad, off pitch etc i.e.

Not that I want to hear rants about who's technique is better. Rather I am interested in how you could describe his technique in CVT terms.

http://www.BristowVoiceMethod.com/

Mikael
Mikael Nordin
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Sala, SWEDEN

Postby singsangsung » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:28 pm

Hi,

I don´t know about the compressed Tongue, as I do not understand this concept fully (though I would like to).

With the rest I do agree. It´s basically the same as Speech Level Singing, and it is (in my opinion) much too weak for many, if not most styles of music.

Though I do agree it´s compressed neutral on the high notes, I would like to know what it is on the low notes. I can distinguish curbing and overdrive on lower notes, but as for neutral I do not know, because even if I sing very soft on lower notes there is a kind of switch or even a break (if i do not concentrate on avoiding it) betweeen soft low and high notes.

I believe the following: If the high notes are easy and effortless, you cannot express feelings that are often connected with high notes, like power, anger, victory, pain, excitement. Thus switching to neutral on high notes will make it easy, but will rob you of many possibilities.

Regards,

SingSangSung
singsangsung
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:48 pm

Postby _Kevin_ » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:16 pm

I agree it has SLS written all over it. And I kinda agree with singsangsung about the high notes, sure it can be beautiful to hit a high note in Neutral, effortless sounding and flowing IF it's right for the song. If you'd study this technique (and many other techniques for that matter) you might develop a great voice but you can only use according to that technique otherwise you won't know how to solve problems.

So comparing SLS and Bristow to CVT:
you can have the 8 colour pencil box or the 64 colour pencil box.

Oh and singsangsung about the break: have you thought about the sound colour? It might be that you colour your low and soft Neutral so dark that you can't sing high without having a break. (Remember that naturally the sound colour lightens a bit when you sing higher and if you colour to dark you can't go up thus creating a break).
_Kevin_
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:09 am

Postby donnygg » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:55 pm

The technique does sound very much SLS. But has anyone read the ebook?(http://www.bristowvoicemethod.com/new-era-down.html) The psychology part is pretty interesting and do make some sense. Some people over in other forums have given it the thumbs up. I'm tempted to buy it but I'm saving up for the new CVT book :D
donnygg
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:31 pm

Postby Resonator » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 pm

It doesn't seem he is advocating any specific type of voice (he even says that definitions become less interesting after a while), instead he argues for kineastethic awareness, muscle memory stuff combined with visualization and letting go of psychological blocks et al. Seems to be an "inner game" approach for singing, simply said. Which can be a nice addition to your arsenal if you think that would help you.
Resonator
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:59 pm

Postby Elrathion » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:47 am

What does annoy me from time to time is people not being critical what so ever. Plz stop copy pasting comments like "you can have the 8 colour pencil box or the 64 colour pencil box."

Have you studied intensly for at least a year with a level 5 SLS or Seth?
Do you really know the fullness of what they think or are you just a guy copy pasting and believing all that is thrown at him?

All methods have different merrits to them, and you'd be a fool to just holy believe in the one method, frankly you're limiting yourself.
If you go claim that CVT is the ONE thing people craved for for ages, but never deeply investigate others you might lack alot of depth and understanding. In fact I think people who only advocate CVT as are about the same as people saying that SLS is the answer.

Now about the Per Bristow method. He mostly works about releasing tensions activly, which many other methods speak about, but few actually use. As such there are tons of tongue relaxing-, diaphragm expanding-, jaw relaxing, larynx relaxing- explanations and exercises.
The reason why his method is good is the following: he first teaches you to relax everything, and once you are able to do so, he teaches you to use only the muscles that are really needed to sing. With other programs you might be using a hell lot more effort then you really need, instead his approuch is starting off slow, disengaging, and then when you can manage such a feet, engage what is needed progressivly thought. Like a retrain your body.

As for the comparison with SLS, it's true that they both believe that singing should genually be a more relaxed way, but their approuch is something completly different. The one goes by it doing silly sounds on scales, tricking your voice into the mix, Per doesnt believe in scales and thinks it's a path for you to tense up, and tries to allow you to make sound happen without any constriction going on, and makes you concious of previously unknown constrictions.
He also makes you have a bigger awareness of what you're feeling, which I kinda neglected for a long time and hindered my progress.

Try to combine what works for you, and drop that which doesn't. There isn't one successfull route to getting where you want, there are many, and the combination of taking the right elements that work for you will make you kick second gear, whereas if you desperatly try to go the route of what you have predetermend as your path, will slow you down.
Elrathion
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:34 am
Location: Belgium

Postby Paulina Bielicz » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:16 pm

I would like to take my hat of for Elrathion.

"Try to combine what works for you, and drop that which doesn't." as you said, should be such a logical thing to see, yet it can be so hard!

For me, personally I love to promote CVT as it has helped me so much, and believe it can be worth so much for others too, but on the other hand, I will never forget what I've learnt from my years with classical and estill training - without them, I would not be where I am today.

Thank you for such an engaging post!
Paulina Bielicz
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: Gothenburg

Postby Ville Laaksonen » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:34 pm

I think that sometimes people might feel a bit intimidated by CVT because it claims that you can learn to sing in any way you like to and it includes all the techniques for doing that. That's a quite big claim, isn't it? But why not to say it out loud if you've experienced it to be true?

As Pauline, I love to promote CVT because it has helped me enormously with my singing and I wish that everyone could have the chance to experience the same freedom of artistic choice that CVT promotes and has made possible to me. I have tried out different teachers and their methods and will keep on trying because you always learn something even if you think that it's utter nonsense. I also find it valuable for me as a teacher to know the terminology other teachers and methods use.

I've read some things from Per Bristow and I like the way he encourages you not to hinder yourself and enjoy the learning process, which I think is quite similar to what Cathrine does.
Ville Laaksonen
Authorized CVT Teacher
Authorized CVT Teacher
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: Finland

Postby Elrathion » Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:48 am

Well here is the perks of Per's approuch.

About every other approuch says: use open throat, don't get constrictions, you don't need rockhard abs while singing, relax your neck, relax the jaw, what have you.

The difference between those approuches and Per's is that he actually gives you training to relax them. I can shake my jaw like if it were just hanging out of me now, my tongue doesnt budge a thing unless I want it too, and my neck is gettin free too.

From thereon he teaches you which muscles to engage, the right ones.

One thing that struck me as interesting in Catherine's manual was that she said it's ok to tense up other muscles to learn to sing. You'll eventually gather enough strenght to do without the assitance of them.
Well for me that has been a big trap since I was never able to do it without assistance of the wrong musculature. Also sayin relax the throat might sound uber easy, but I was never able to do it.

That's why I say there is an approuch for everyone [Catherina agrees with this as her manual is just filled with different sensations approuches to teach one thing].

In my experiences the top vocal coaches all embrace this principle btw. They are not stubbornly holding on to THE WAY, instead they just cater to the wishes and needs of each individual and try to lead them to the fastest path they want in a safe way.

SLS would be the exception on that, since if you wanna become a level 5 SLS teacher you gotta do pretty much everything Seth has tought you, with small variations allowed.
That being said, even SLS has alot of interesting ideas and approuches to offer, so openmindedness is the key :>

It's a great point you mention there, about other terminology. That's a thing that I often find very confusing when talking to people who use CVT is that they say things like "That's a classic case of overdrive". It's one of the reasons I got the manual, to be able to understand the reasoning behind it all.
Elrathion
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:34 am
Location: Belgium

Postby Mikael Nordin » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:06 pm

I've seen the four first lessons now (bought the DVD's).

Bristow really focuses on releasing tensions in the back of the tongue and the entire throat, and that is really great. He also has a great mental approach to the whole idea of singing.

Though, I felt like fast-forwarding to the end to see if this will really end up in the ability to sing with power. So, I haven't really done all the practising yet, but I have seen the lessons allright.
All I heard was compressed Neutral on the high notes (I guess he went for Overdrive on the low notes).
Therefore he didn't need to focus on support or twang for instance.

Hopefully I can have use of the tensionless technique and still be able to sing in all modes.
Bristow teaches you to be totally relaxed even under your chin (where the chin meets your throat), and you should be able to put your fingers there and see to it that there is no tension there.
Is this possible in all the modes (I might manage in Neutral...)?

To me it seems like CVT says
"with great support you'll have an open throat"
and Bristow goes
"with an open throat you'll have great support".

I'd like a CVT teachers views on this, please.
Mikael Nordin
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Sala, SWEDEN

Postby Mikael Nordin » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:51 am

... to be more specific in my question:
this tension between chin and throat... what is it?
Is it a muscle, the root of the tongue?
Is it a good idea to keep it relaxed in all modes?
Mikael Nordin
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Sala, SWEDEN

Postby SimianGuru » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:03 am

In my 5 minutes of research I've discovered this:

One of the muscles under the chin is the digastric. There's one more right under there too but don't know what it's called.

The digastric muscle is connected to the hyoid bone which is attached to the thyroid cartilage which is the adams apple that houses the larynx. The larynx has the vocal cords and muscles which produce sound and adjust pitch.

(the knee bone's connected to the... hip bone! lol)

Anyway. The hyoid is supposed to be responsible for a larger amount of sounds that humans can produce, coupled with a descended larynx that animals can't.

So, you tighten your jaw, you lose articulation of the sound-producing mechanism but not directly the sound-shaping mechanism.

This is where I stop because I'm not an anatomist nor do I care to be seen as one.

But hey, it's good to know.
SimianGuru
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:49 am

Postby SimianGuru » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:05 am

In my 5 minutes of research I've discovered this:

One of the muscles under the chin is the digastric. There's one more right under there too but don't know what it's called.

The digastric muscle is connected to the hyoid bone which is attached to the thyroid cartilage which is the adams apple that houses the larynx. The larynx has the vocal cords and muscles which produce sound and adjust pitch.

(the knee bone's connected to the... hip bone! lol)

Anyway. The hyoid is supposed to be responsible for a larger amount of sounds that humans can produce, coupled with a descended larynx that animals can't.

So, you tighten your jaw, you lose articulation of the sound-producing mechanism but not directly the sound-shaping mechanism.

This is where I stop because I'm not an anatomist nor do I care to be seen as one.

But hey, it's good to know.
SimianGuru
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:49 am

Postby Mikael Nordin » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:59 pm

Thank you SimianGuru!
Now I could wiki the terms you presented and I got the picture.
Still, I am not sure wether I should focus on keeping it relaxed.
If the digastric is connected to the hyoid bone which makes the adams apple go up, CVI teaches that it should go up...

Or.. is the tension in the digastric muscle the same thing as a tightened/tense jaw!?

It is quite easy to keep digastricus relaxed in Neutral and the adams apple kept low, but I want to able to sing in all modes you know :wink:
Mikael Nordin
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: Sala, SWEDEN

Postby SimianGuru » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:15 am

Remember, there are also 'chewing' muscles that can lead to tense jaw.

I neutral def the digastric should be relaxed. I don't know about the others. Off the top of my head I'd say Curbing too. I can do overdrive with relaxed muscles and Edging too. So yes, the can be relaxed. Don't know if they 'should'.
SimianGuru
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:49 am

Next

Return to Vocal Technique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: highnotemaniac and 0 guests